Embark on a riveting exploration of history's murky corridors with Donald Jeffries, as we, alongside Chris Graves, peel away at the New Orleans nexus of the JFK assassination. The enigma of Dean Andrews' beatnik affiliations and Jim Garrison's dogged pursuit of truth serves as our starting point, unraveling a tapestry of conspiracy theories that challenge the official narrative. Our dialogue weaves through the shadowy associations of Lee Harvey Oswald and the skepticism surrounding the "lone gunman" theory, painting a vivid picture of political intrigue and potential cover-ups that echo through time.
With each twist and turn in our discussion, the specters of George H.W. Bush's formative CIA connections, David Ferrie's nefarious activities, and the possibility of political figures being entangled in covert operations, arise, casting long shadows over the Kennedy era. Through the lens of Oliver Stone's "JFK" and the stark realities we dissect, we trace the complex web of power and secrecy that may have orchestrated one of America's most profound tragedies. The implications of the assassination ripple outward, touching on policies from the Bay of Pigs to Israel's nuclear strategies, and we ponder the ways in which history's powerful entities bend public perception to their will.
As the conversation culminates, the full scope of JFK's assassination emerges, suggesting a labyrinthine plot with tendrils reaching into the highest echelons of power. Our examination of Oswald's puzzling background, the credibility of evidence, and the potential for a fallback conspiracy illuminates the ongoing questions surrounding Kennedy's death. In the midst of these revelations, New Orleans stands as a pivotal crossroads, hinting at the city's role in a storyline brimming with more questions than answers. Join us as we connect the dots across this intricate web of secrecy and power, leaving no stone unturned in our quest for the elusive truth.
Embark on a riveting exploration of history's murky corridors with Donald Jeffries, as we, alongside Chris Graves, peel away at the New Orleans nexus of the JFK assassination. The enigma of Dean Andrews' beatnik affiliations and Jim Garrison's dogged pursuit of truth serves as our starting point, unraveling a tapestry of conspiracy theories that challenge the official narrative. Our dialogue weaves through the shadowy associations of Lee Harvey Oswald and the skepticism surrounding the "lone gunman" theory, painting a vivid picture of political intrigue and potential cover-ups that echo through time.
With each twist and turn in our discussion, the specters of George H.W. Bush's formative CIA connections, David Ferrie's nefarious activities, and the possibility of political figures being entangled in covert operations, arise, casting long shadows over the Kennedy era. Through the lens of Oliver Stone's "JFK" and the stark realities we dissect, we trace the complex web of power and secrecy that may have orchestrated one of America's most profound tragedies. The implications of the assassination ripple outward, touching on policies from the Bay of Pigs to Israel's nuclear strategies, and we ponder the ways in which history's powerful entities bend public perception to their will.
As the conversation culminates, the full scope of JFK's assassination emerges, suggesting a labyrinthine plot with tendrils reaching into the highest echelons of power. Our examination of Oswald's puzzling background, the credibility of evidence, and the potential for a fallback conspiracy illuminates the ongoing questions surrounding Kennedy's death. In the midst of these revelations, New Orleans stands as a pivotal crossroads, hinting at the city's role in a storyline brimming with more questions than answers. Join us as we connect the dots across this intricate web of secrecy and power, leaving no stone unturned in our quest for the elusive truth.
Former US Army paratrooper, historian and conspiracy analyst, tony Arterberg, joined by top researchers and guests, exploring the depths of our hidden history, exposed the crimes and cover-ups that plague our civilization and planet and patrol the borders of our reality, from the parapolitical to the paranormal, in the psychological war for your body, soul and mind. Be me a paratrooper.
Speaker 3:Alright, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Paratrooper. I am joined by my two magnificent researchers. Co-host Mr Anderson is here. Welcome back to your own show, sir.
Speaker 4:Hey, tony, great to be here.
Speaker 3:I'm glad you're here for this and, of course, researcher without peer, chris Graves, who does so much magnificent work for the gentleman we're going to introduce here in a minute. Welcome to the show, chris, your own show.
Speaker 5:Thank you, mr Arterberg. Thank you, mr Anderson. Thank you, Mr Donald Jeffries. I apologize, because I'm the reason why we're going late right now. So but I'm here, don't worry about that.
Speaker 3:We're just recording and it doesn't matter. This is we're time travelers.
Speaker 4:But, chris, you're always late.
Speaker 3:And you stepped on my introduction of the legendary non-Jeffries. But I won't hold that against you, I'm just going to deduct it from your paratrooper pay.
Speaker 3:Don the magnificent, legendary Donald Jeffries, my friend. He's got a new book out, folks. It's called Pipe, the Bimbo in Red. It is a book on Dean Andrews, jim Garrison and the conspiracy to kill JFK.
Speaker 3:And if you follow my podcast or the feed, when I filled in for David Knight a few weeks ago, don and I did the second hour of the show and it was all about this, but I had so much fun and I thought we need to have a show that's not live. I want to bring Chris Graves and Mr Anderson on and let's do a round table on this, because this is a fascinating subject. It's a niche part of the JFK assassination, the history of that, and it's very important to know that New Orleans connection not only with people like Dean Andrews and Clay Shaw or Clay Bircham, david Ferry, the Operation Mongoose, all of that, but it involves Oswald and I want to start with that, the title of the book, and I'm sure people are confused, but this is referencing a scene in Oliver Stone's JFK Don, where the great John Candy plays the character Dean Andrews in the real life that you wrote about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's a direct quote from it. We get a lot of comments on the title and that was. We just took it from that. We thought it was a particularly descriptive beatnik term and Dean Andrews Jr is known for his beatnik lingo and he's got the right ta-ta and the wrong toto or something. He has all kinds of great lines. And if you read his Warren Commission testimony we actually included his entire Warren Commission testimony as an appendix to the book because it's worth reading. It's unlike pretty much everything else in the 26th Alliance of Hearings exhibits His testimony is the gold standard. It's the most interesting testimony of all by far. It's not even you know. You read it, you won't be disappointed. And the beatnik lingo helps. So that's why we wanted to kind of throw that in the title so that people would get an idea of his unique mindset he had.
Speaker 3:Well, he definitely had a unique mindset. But I'd like for you to set up, you know, for the audience, like what Dean Andrews role, because what's fascinating, you know, is this phone call that he gets, why he's a witness in the Warren Commission. How does Jim Garrison become to know him? I'm guessing because of the Warren Commission itself. Is it or is it through the grapevine that he found out about the phone call and you can explain that as well?
Speaker 2:Well, they were. They were friends and like young Dean at the time, dean the third, who became my brother's best friend and then my friend, and he was the inspiration of the book, as he said, you know, jim Garrison used to call their houses and say hello, young Dean, when he'd pick it up. You know, they were buddies. I used to go to the New Orleans Athletic Club together, where a lot of the movers and shakers in New Orleans went. So but I don't, for whatever reason, I don't, think Garrison had an initial interest in the Kennedy assassination, and that show, alderstone, shows that JFK, where he questioned David Ferry right away about a strange trip to drive to Houston, you know, to go ice skating, so so just a completely ridiculous story, but that's a great scene in the movie. But after that he lost interest and it wasn't till, as the film shows, on a plane with my hero Healy Long's son, senator Russell Long he's the one that kind of queued him up. Hey, you know something's this is. You know that Warren Commission's a joke. And so he started reading the Warren Commission hearings and exhibits, like a lot of us were doing I mean, I may a little bit later than that, but that's what we were doing and he saw Dean. I don't think he maybe he knew Dean Andrews test five, maybe not, but he was a friend of his. But when he read his testimony he said, wow, this is significant. And he read about the phone call and said what is this? So that's when you see in the movies trying to get him to testify about it, what was going on here, dino, and you know, as you can see, he was dancing all around it. They can crush me like a bug and all that stuff. And but so I think that's Dean Andrews can be credited with. Really, I think triggering Dean. Jim B Jarrison's initial after Russell Long got him interested in the case itself again that maybe there was something there. That was the first part of the Warren Commission's record Dean Andrews testimony. That's what really piqued his interest, because he knew Dean Andrews and he said what's going on here? Why? Why is he being called in the hospital to represent Lee Harvey Oswald? And that's when he looked in his background and he said, okay, dean had had. And I personally again, this is me, but I think that everybody in that New Orleans group, and that's what we focus on this, I call it the ground level of conspiracy and I think all those people were being manipulated. Now Darrison thought, and I believe too that we.
Speaker 2:Harvey Oswald was on assignment at the time of the assassination at the FBI or CIA, whoever he was working for at the time and he was told the infiltrated group that was planning to kill the president, and that was that group in New Orleans. That's who he infiltrated and that's where all the anti-castro Cubans came around. I don't think Cuba had anything to do with the assassination, but they had all these people around there to muddy up the waters and that's who. That's who Oswald was hanging around with constantly, because I think he was told to, and I think he was probably told to, go see Dean Andrews if you have any legal questions, which he did. He came. Can you help me with my dishonorable discharge? Can you help my wife with her immigration plan?
Speaker 2:And you know, as Dean said, he came with all these gay Cuban Caballeros. You know that came in there too, all the, all the gay boys. And Dean was a man that had his time. I don't think anybody was calling homosexuals gay at that point, but he was. So he was lingo at the time. But so, again, I think they directed in there for a reason, and I think that's probably why he was the one that was called. I don't know what they were intending to do, because presumably the conspirators knew they were going to kill Oswald. So why they were trying to set something up for him to represent him, I don't know. It's a great mystery and I'm sure he wondered about it too. But there's no question is as Dean the third says in the book he said there's no question that Clay Bertrand was Clay Shaw.
Speaker 3:Well, let's just go back to be clear. Dean Andrews actually represented Oswald. You know what was it a couple of years prior.
Speaker 2:How far back was it? No, it was the summer of 63. Okay, so the summer of 60s, summer of 63,.
Speaker 3:He's working on Oswald's behalf. Yeah, to clear up the issues with the military just on, who will discharge all that.
Speaker 2:Right, right, he's doing a little little work for him and you know, as he, as he says, you know he owed me 25 bucks. Yeah, so I don't think Oswald paid him so, but he in fact he encountered, when Oswald was passing out the pamphlets, you know, on the street, you know very again getting the stage fight with Carl Spring gear, who's the only one in these, in this mess, who's still alive. Carl Spring gear is in his 90s, he's still living. But I'm, you know, I told William, my co author, william was. You know, I'm not going to call him, you know, because that guy scares me. He's a, he's a scary figure and he's been very vocal over the years. He's an extreme right winger and he thinks Castro killed him, but he's still, whether he's playing a game or not, he's still doing the anti-Castor thing to the hilt and so he's blaming Castro for the assassination. But he's not. It wouldn't even be productive to talk to him because he's, you know, he's I don't know how much he knew any.
Speaker 2:I think all those people David Ferry, jack Martin, guy Bannister, who died way too early for Jim Garrison to even question him, and even Clay Shaw, to some degree, shaw, I think Shaw was the connection. That's why we focus a lot on Shaw on the book, because he had lots of powerful connections going back to Operation Paperclip at the end of World War II and Permindex, you know, the huge corporation. So I think he was, although I think he was manipulated himself too because he really we describe his very strange death in the book as well. It's, it's strange, and so I don't think he was, you know he was, you know, untouchable, but I think he was probably the connection between that ground level conspirators who were all being manipulated, jack Rueb included, and the people above them that were actually the conspirators.
Speaker 3:So you have Dean Andrews in the summer of 63 representing Oswald on matters of, you know, documents and his service and all that. But the phone call that Dean Andrews gets in on November 22nd 1963 is from a Clay Bertrand Right and the high. So Dean Andrews is in the hospital. He gets a phone call from Clay I'm putting his quotation Clay Bertrand, because if you watch the movie JFK and of course you read your work, clay Shaw is Clay Bertrand Right and vice versa Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's that's and that's what he. And this is why I mean, if you look at Dean, dean Andrews is a he's a sympathetic figure to me and a lot of people in the JFK research community don't sympathize with him. But knowing his son, I know what the family went through afterwards and I know how, what Dean was doing behind the scenes. Dean Jr, you know the beatnik, he, he knew it was a conspiracy and he saw how many people were dying and he didn't want to be a victim either. So he decided to lie and save his. You know, as he said, one of his great I like to breathe. You know, typical Dean, it's Logan and he. So he, he did do that and he, you know he ruined his family's life. They're all their lives were affected.
Speaker 2:Dean Dean, my friend Dean the third, was on track to go to law school and become a lawyer too. All that fell apart. His younger brother, who just died, maybe a month or two ago, lifelong drug addict and, you know, had never could kick it, and it was all because of what they went through, cause his father, the father, his father basically went nuts. You know he would, he would lock the doors of the house so that the young boy, when he came on from school he couldn't get inside because he was paranoid. They were going to try to come and get him.
Speaker 2:And you know his wife. I met his wife, we had her out for dinners. I was the first researcher she ever talked to and she, you know she still blames her husband and thinks he's crazy. It was just nuts. And I said no, he wasn't. And I tried to explain to her. I think I got through her a little bit. She's still alive, you know, in her nineties, but the family was really impacted.
Speaker 2:So I can, I can empathize with him doing, you know, just, he had a family and he thought he was trying to protect him but unfortunately for history, you know it, he ended up serving the conspirators cause because he lied and he was charged with perjury later. But he knew who Clay Bertrand was. He knew that was Clay Shaw. I mean, he gave this ridiculous description of him with one point where he was really short and just he was constantly playing games, you know, because he was trying to again, trying to protect himself. And but this book I think in our book, when especially we talk in a dean the third talks about going to the, the Alpha 66 camps, the anti-Castro camps, as a kid with his father. So we have a lot of information in this book that you're never going to find anywhere else.
Speaker 3:Well, I want to talk a little bit about your theory on the Cuban connection, but we start here in New Orleans. So you have again. Dean Andrews gets a call from Clay Bertrand, which is Clay Shaw, and we want to dig in a little bit about who Clay Shaw is, because that's really important. The entire New Orleans connection to Oswald is being this lone gunman who just shows up and wants to be famous by killing the president. The mainstream narrative Warren Commission is so ridiculous. How much truth is there? Don to the scene in JFK where Garrison goes out on the street corner and says you see that building right there in 1963?
Speaker 2:That was the office of Naval.
Speaker 3:Intelligence, and next to it was the CIA and then, across the streets, the FBI, and if you look at the side office of that, was the apartment of Lee Harvey Oswald right and then Guy Bannister's office.
Speaker 2:Right, well, yeah, oswald's. That was where the it's very accurate. I mean, everything about JFK is accurate. There were people that criticized it. He was meticulous.
Speaker 2:He did take creative license, like, for instance, the very descriptive Kevin Bacon character, willie O'Keefe. That was a composite figure, but he's a great character, but he gets the point across. You know, you're a good looking man, mr Jefferson, mr Garrison, you've been a company, you've been a great stuff that you remember. But he's basically a composite of Perry, emman Rousseau and a couple other people, but that's the old thing. He had to change Ruth Payne's name, who's still alive, because she was going to sue him. I think he called her Ruth Williams or something.
Speaker 2:But other than that, everything is accurate. So when he points out those office buildings, guy Bannister, who was of, you know, as bad as anti-communist as someone could be at the time, I mean he was extreme right, extreme anti-communist. John Byrd society type Lee Harvey Oswald, had an office in the same building. It was just a separate entrance and that's where his fair play for Cuba committee address was that he was supposedly a head up. So I mean, you know, it doesn't get much more obvious than that. So, yeah, that's a great scene too, when he's pointing it out, and there's so so many great people.
Speaker 2:He's got to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's right there, the entire exclusion. It's impossible to have all the. If he's a lone nut, he was just floating around in space that's not connected to anything, what the hell is this Right? And that's why I thought your book was so interesting. And even the Dean Andrews character, because the phone call that again he tells Garrison about. And who else did he tell about the phone call?
Speaker 2:He told his personal lawyer and he told his secretary and his secretary very oddly said I can't go to Dallas with you. I thought was strange at the time and but you know he. So he told at least two people that we know they're very close to him and of course, that he would tend to tell the FBI and the Secret Service of people that were questioning him. He would tell them about it as well, but they would eventually keep working on working on him and try to badger him into saying well, it was a drug you were on and you hallucinated it, which is ridiculous and we have. I don't want to have spoilers out, but thanks to young Dean. He pointed out some things in there where he claims that his father's hospital stay wasn't innocent and he's lucky he got out alive. So we again, this is information that hadn't been anywhere else. So I don't know why they called Dean and they called him on the late of the afternoon of the assassination. I can't figure that out. I think it would be nice if we could could figure it out, because obviously he was closer to Clay Shaw than he let on, if that would be the lawyer, because that was as he said.
Speaker 2:Bertrand sent him clients. He mostly sent him Cubans, anti-castro Cubans, and the gay Caballeros, the gay boys. Why he was sending those people to him, I don't know. I think can only be explained in the fact that they were all being manipulated. You know that Dean had some government contracts. Obviously Clay Shaw did, and this was part of the assignment. You know these guys are all supposed to and they were probably told all different things that a Dean may have been told. Hey, you know these guys are planning to kill the president and so keep an eye on them. And obviously I was told that, I think, and they all may have been told that. So I think that they just played themselves off against each other.
Speaker 2:But there's no question, bertrand, as you see, this is another great scene in JFK where the officer Haggis forced I can't remember it's a very long name when he was questioning Clay Shaw at his first arrest and he Aalises and he said Clay Bertrand, and he wrote it down, but they wouldn't let him introduce that at trial. You remember the great scene, kevin, constance, that's my case, nina. He said well, if that's your case, jimbo, you don't have a case or something, and but that's accurate because that was a very important, see, but we, you know, we have more information in there about obviously he was, that was his Aalise, and they went into the French Quarter and the we're all you know the gay figures of the time were and he was, this Clay Bertrand fellow was way well known and that's why, and we talk about how you know these people that are associated with Oswald, I mean they're and I forget the exact connections that I had that are associated with Oswald and Ferry and, but you know, people can read the book but it's fascinating because at the time Garrison began his investigation, two of them were living together as roommates, next door to Clay Shaw, you know again. So I mean, and they had these. So these, these, these so many connections, and Shaw has Shaw had connections with Dr Alvin Oxner at the Oxner Clinic.
Speaker 2:Now, the Oxner Clinic was a famous health clinic, healthcare clinic in New Orleans that serviced a lot of third world dictators. The CIA would shut a lot of these people there if they needed medical care at Oxner Clinic. Well, lee Arby, oswald's best friend in high school, edward DeVobel, now again, this is the first, I was the first one. I got in touch with his family, his sister's sweetie, pie and cookie. You know that's their names and they were really cool and I have I report I don't want to spoil what they said, but you know, I think it's pretty obvious that his death was very suspicious. It took place in the Oxner Clinic and I think it was 32 years old. And so you know, clay Shaw had really he had had enough ties to Oxner, where Oxner had a special office in the trademark where Shaw was a director of.
Speaker 2:So these guys are all connected and he goes to Perm Index, the shadowy. If you watch the parallax view of that movie with Warren Beatty, which was kind of a fictionalized representation of Perm Index, they described him as an international assassination bureau. But Clay Shaw was the director or one of the top officials in Perm Index. And you had curious figures. You had, like, somebody that was very close to Adolf Hitler at one point was in Perm Index. You had the guy that was the president of Hungary. That was in Perm Index.
Speaker 2:So you had a lot of people that were also tied to Opus Dei. You know the, the, the, the Masonic order in the in Italy, where that Roberto Calvi you know was found. God's banker was hung under Blackfyre's bridge a long time ago hanging there. So these, these are really. There are a lot of very strange connections that Shaw had and the idea that he was some kind of Conley philanthropist. Now he was, he was, he was connected to everybody and it's. They did it. Alvarezone did a good job in the movie, you put it, but I think we, you know, we, we really this is for people that want to know more, because we really peeled back the layers and just kind of showed, detailed, exactly what his connections were.
Speaker 5:Well, mr Jeffries, can I ask you this have you found evidence that George HW Bush had some kind of connection with Perm Index, because a lot of people over the years think that Perm Index was the kind of the, the, the fake corporation that hired the, the assassins, and things like that. And have you found the connection with Poppy Bush?
Speaker 2:No, I have not found the direct kind. And the Bush thing is, I'm certainly no fan of the Bushes and they were, they're tied into a lot of things. But and there's a whole sect of people that believe George HW Bush was. I mean, you know, the guy that had on my show a couple of times, john Hankey, I think he's the one that believes George HW Bush was a gunman in the Dallas Records Building. And I told him, I said really they would you think they would hire? They would hire somebody like that. And does that make sense?
Speaker 5:Not to me, but the Perm, the Perm Index angle itself, because he gets lumped in with that. I don't even mean, yes, john Hankey, and then other people, I can't, I forget the name. There was another author that I talked to a long time ago. He kind of proposed the picture showing a figure that looked like George HW Bush.
Speaker 5:Yeah, a lot of people said I'm talking about Perm Index, the actual entity itself. He gets kind of he gets lumped in with that. I didn't couldn't find anything really to send to you. I think maybe the other research was that were helping. Okay, so you didn't.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't. I didn't Because again, people got to remember. I mean, george HW Bush was not that, he was a pretty young man in 1963. And I, you know Shaw, went back to Perm Index, you know back to the 50s. So he would have been even younger if he was associated. I don't, I don't know how powerful a figure George HW Bush was at that time. You know George Bush or the CIA he's, do you think he was?
Speaker 5:in the. Do you think he was in the CIA then? Because how could he actually become the head of the CIA in 19,? That was always my problem All of a sudden he becomes the head of the CIA in 1975 without having any prior connection with the agency at all Right. Well, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you, you, people like Porter Goss it was a congressman that was just, you know, people of the ledge to get connections and they both, they both probably did have some kind of connections that we didn't know. But so, Bush, you know, there's, there's so many undercover assets we don't know. I mean, we have you know, recently it's come out and I've tried to find a source for it. Chris, maybe you can help me on that for the next book. But I, you know there was a ledge now that Mark Meadows, who was the cheapest staffer for Trump, was, was an FBI asset working in the White House tape recording him. So I can't find evidence for that. So somebody like a George HW Bush could certainly have been any of these guys could be doing undercover work in Congress or anywhere else.
Speaker 2:And you see, and that's what that's what my whole theory of the New Orleans ground level players is based on, I think they were, all you know, being manipulated and reporting back to somebody and they probably didn't even. Certainly it was something like Jack Ruby. I mean, look at him, he. Just how did they get him to do what he did? I mean, I think, again, they did a real job on him. But he, who knows what he was told? But I think these guys David Ferry was another one who had obviously was very messed up and could have been told a million things.
Speaker 2:And the thing is interesting about the New Orleans group is that you know, studying them all, every one of them would have. He would have been very anxious to participate in the assassination of Kennedy. They all hated him, with the single exception of Lee Harvey Oswald. Right, there's no evidence that Oswald didn't. It was anything but a fan of JFK. So all the other ones that could have, they just weren't. They weren't stable enough to use, they were being manipulated, they weren't real conspirators, but they definitely would have supported it.
Speaker 2:And after it happened, who knows, they were all scared. Most of them ended up dying translate. So they probably didn't, weren't you know? Maybe they understood they had been betrayed. Maybe Dean Andrews knew that he'd been betrayed, I don't know. And you know, oswald probably, you know, didn't live with long enough, I guess, to realize how betrayed he was. But that's you know. With with with my, how my theory goes, I think all these people were being used and for years, researchers keep looking at our. Our book is focusing on the ground level because I think that's important to understand what it was. But you know, I think that all of these people, with the exception of Shaw, were irrelevant in terms of who killed JFK. I think they were all working for them in this, in the case, doing whatever they were doing, mudding the waters, but I think the real powers were, were much, much higher up.
Speaker 4:Right. So, Don, first I was going to thank you for taking the time to discuss this topic and, uh, I haven't read the book yet. I intend to, but the title really catches your name. And thank you for clearing up that confusion, Cause I was thinking of what's this referring to? Laying down some pipe on this bimbo. But uh. I'm sure it's great. But yeah, I was curious if you could comment more on the David Ferry connection, cause he was like a real life human, hairless, wasn't he?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, he was.
Speaker 4:Which probably was weird, um, if he was flying you around and you saw this guy with a wig and fake eyebrows on. But uh could you comment on his connection to Carlo Marcelo and the mob in New Orleans? Because, if I'm not mistaken, when Arf K kicked Marcelo out of the country once, this guy flew him back right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, he was, he was Marcelo's personal pilot, but he also flew for the CIA. And again, I think, uh, and Dean Andrews, uh, the third, my friend, claims that Carlos Marcelo saved his father's life. He thinks that's the only reason he wasn't killed, cause Marcelo thought, now, again, I don't think the mob, the mob, the mob, the mob, the mob might have been used in a, in a minor role, as JFK says, I think, at a, at a lower level they might have been, they may have used some of their, certainly their assets, cause, especially at that time, when dealing with cube, it's hard to know sometimes where the mafia begins and the CIA ends. You know there was a lot of overlap there. So, uh, marcelo was certainly and again, marcelo is another one who certainly would have loved she was seen both candidates dead. All those big mobsters would have. I just don't think those guys had the power to pull something laid off. But but Farry Farry was, uh, on the day of the assassination. That was his alibi. You know he was sitting in court with Carlos Marcella at his trial. So he certainly wasn't there in Dallas to participate in the assassination. But so I think, again, I think that the mafia is kind of like the Cuban question, where it kind of muddies the water a little bit, because I think the only people that had the power to kill Kennedy, to kill the president of the United States and to control the entire press from the very beginning and 60 years later to hill, control it all, we're the same power as we see doing these other huge events 9-11 and things like that along the in the following decades, and these are people that I think that the upper levels and I think the major players probably were in the Pentagon and the CIA. But these are people that are.
Speaker 2:But one thing we have in the book and I'll give a little teaser out, but John Barber, when he my friend, he, when Garrison, chose to give an interview after the Shaw trial. He didn't choose to give an interview with any big network, he didn't choose to give an interview with even Oliver Stone. He wanted to talk to John Barber and John Barber was the only one who he had hours and hours of tape and he used a lot of that for the Garrison tapes, which is a great documentary made, and then his second documentary made much later, the American media and the second assassination of John F Kennedy, which is just probably the best thing ever done on the assassination terms of a documentary. But when he was talking to Garrison, he asked him at one point, said you know, who do you think was like the main player here? Who do you think was the guy that was? You know, the guy that gave the orders?
Speaker 2:And Garrison claimed he thought it was Averill Harriman, and Averill Harriman's, you know, as a career diplomat and what he's, he was one of these guys that would be probably high up in the Bilderbergers and the CFR and everything, if there's an Illuminati that kind of thing. And so that's true. I don't know, but that gives you an idea where he thought the you know the orders came from, and that would have been like the real internationalists, the globalists, the financiers, the 1%, and so I think that's probably who that's, I think that's who, the only ones who can order something like that. So but again, I don't know, but I just I don't think it was the mafia and rogue CIA agents for a lot of these anti-Castro Cubans. I don't think that those were the assassins.
Speaker 3:Let's stay on that line of logic, don. I wanna get your thoughts on this Cause. This is interesting, this little, this little cul-de-sac of history, because you're talking about the lineage of the anti-Kennedy sentiment. If we are to believe the timeline you know, of course you get the Bay of Pigs and the firing of Alan Dulles and so many of the top officials and the joint chiefs and the CIA. Kennedy comes out, takes responsibility, didn't give air cover to the anti-Castro forces. How long was Operation Mongoose? Was that a continuing thing in the past? The Bay of Pigs Was that something that stopped after the botched attempt of the overthrow of Castro and Cuba in October of 19th? Was it October of 61?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it was earlier than that, I think.
Speaker 3:Okay, cause October was the Cuban Missile Crisis 62.
Speaker 2:I think it was April of 62. It was right after he entered office. It was very, very, very.
Speaker 3:So right after it was a kid. So if you watch the movie JFK and then if you watch actually, you get a little bit of the same references in the movie Nixon that Oliver Stone also did, cause Nixon says you know he's talking about Howard Hunt and some of these other figures that were hired by the White House that Nixon didn't know about. And he said I know who he is and I know what he tracks back to and you know what that means it's like. Track two was this plan that was set up by the Eisenhower administration and the CIA to knock off different world or different leaders in the South American countries. Well, actually it was global, it was a assassination program and that was a continuation of the policies.
Speaker 3:Kennedy takes over, basically absorbs it, and then the Bay of Pigs fails, kennedy doesn't send air cover. So you get at least in my mind, if you're following the line of logic, that he's killed by the Central Intelligence Agency, military industrial complex deep state, which really, in my mind, is connected to high finance. There is no separation, they're basically the same thing because of their origin stories. So I wanted to get your thoughts on that. So does the New Orleans connection start as an anti-Kennedy, anti-castro movement, and does it because it doesn't make any sense that it comes out of this assassination comes out of that. The genesis is there, but then look at our policy towards Cuba afterwards. It's. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's again what I point out all the time, and I think that I think I'm the only one in the critical community that does it, because I think, again to look, I think the whole Cuba thing is a smoke screen and I think my theory that I developed, that I will, I think, agrees with it mostly, but this is pretty much my baby, that I think that those figures all and there's tons of these Cuban figures and Cuban names that are associated with this, especially around Oswald, but they're around New Orleans and I think they were. It was designed that way to make people think that the assassination was either by Castro, who was mad at Kennedy for supporting efforts to assassinate him, which of course he never did the CIA and the mafia were going behind his back and he stopped them as he found out about it or they were anti-Castor figures who wanted to kill him because they resetted him for his failure to go all out at the Bay of Pigs. So, and I think, as you pointed out, I'm the only one that mentions, okay, well, what happened after the assassination? If he was killed because of Cuba, cuba died as a campaign issue after that. Literally, cuba and Castro were not mentioned really at all. They're in the 1960s, after the assassination.
Speaker 2:Lbj, who would have been placed in there to try to go take out Castro? Right, he never tried to. The CIA stopped trying to assassinate Castro. He outlived them all Nixon, Mr, anti-communist. He never tried to overthrow Castro. So if that was their goal, they failed miserably because Castro again outlived all of them. He stayed in power. So that's why I think it's a smoke screen and it's designed to get people looking in the wrong direction. It's something like the mafia. If you could prove, the mafia killed Kennedy. The mafias are relevant now at this point because the entire government has organized crime.
Speaker 2:I mean you have the Bush and Clinton, those kind of crime families, Obama.
Speaker 5:John, it's like Saudi Arabia at 9-11 being a smoke screen. Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:It's exactly like that. Saudi Arabia for 9-11, exact same kind of thing. And so, or even more recently, covid. It's like the lab leak theory out of Wuhan. The Chinese released this.
Speaker 2:These were, I think, limited hangouts and designed to get people to look in the wrong direction when the truth is somewhere else. But I think we just look at history and what happened afterwards and our policy towards although we kept up the embargo, the disasters embargo on Cuba for decades it's not like we supported them or anything but we never attempted to topple Castro. And again, he stayed in power and he ended up outliving all of them. He was in power for a longer and lived longer, so I don't know how that could have been a success. So, but again, if you look at what did change, our Vietnam policy obviously changed, first and foremost on the surface. That was the most obvious reason because JFK, we know, wanted to pull out of Vietnam is the NSAM 263 shows that. And again, if you want a conspirator in the White House, I would nominate George Bundy National Security Advisor, because he's the one that wrote NSAM 273, the day before the assassination, and JFK never signed and would have fired him for writing it. He would have never signed it and he had to know he would never sign it because it completely turned around the recent policy he had just started of withdrawing troops from Vietnam and getting out of there and let them win the war. So why would somebody do that, knowing that his boss wouldn't approve it, that he would end his career? Well, if he knew that JFK wasn't gonna be around to see it or sign it which he wasn't and LBJ would happily do it then that might explain it.
Speaker 2:So I think we need to look at things like Vietnam or Israeli policy behind the scenes. Jfk, we know, with the Israel and Hamas and everything, and the secret Jewish tunnels and all the crazy stuff that's propped up. In the last month or so the focus has been on Israel more than usual, but the last president to stand up to Israel was JFK Behind the scenes. He was engaged in a huge battle with David Ben-Yurion, the president of Israel, over them developing nuclear weapons. Ever since then no president has stood up to them and so I don't know. I don't think he was killed because of that, but it might have been a contributing factor, I don't know.
Speaker 2:So you look at that. And certainly the CIA. Jfk was in battle with the CIA and wanted to privately told people he wanted to shatter it into million pieces to the winds he was seriously considering abolishing the CIA. So you look at all that. I mean those are some powerful people. And all that changed dramatically after the assassination, unlike the Cuban policy which didn't change at all. Vietnam changed, the CIA just grew more powerful, kept up their dirty tricks and told the church committee and then they went right back to it in the 80s. They're still doing it today. And then you had the Israel, which became just to the point where they could have the USS Liberty attack in 67. And LBJ was such an Israel first, or he swept it under the carpet and really couldn't talk about it for decades. Now you can, but for a long time you were anti-Semitic, if you mentioned it. So I think those are the things that you look at those. And then there's the Federal Reserve question, whether or not he really the sober certificates and everything that he had predated Behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:And I'm the foremost champion, I think, in the world for Joe Kennedy Sr. I love the guy, I think he was a real American hero, jfk's dad. He's gotten awfully bad press and almost all that comes from CIA or mafia sources a lot of lies. He wasn't a bootlegger and all that. He certainly wasn't in with the mafia. That's all ridiculous stuff, but they in reality he was good friends with James Forrestal, who was pushed out of a window Bethesda Naval Hospital. He was good friends with Joe McCarthy, who I'll have a lot more about, and the upcoming American member I think was another genuine American hero, another one that was killed at Bethesda Naval Hospital, and he was one of the first critics of the Federal Reserve behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:So I can't believe that young JFK and young RFK when they're eating at the dinner table and they were notorious for discussing politics I can't believe their father wasn't sharing his opinion about the Federal Reserve and things like that. So I think JFK was acutely aware of what the Federal Reserve really was. Now whether he was gonna, how much he was gonna reform it, I don't know, but if printing those silver certificates might've been the first salvo he was firing there. So there are a lot. I think I would look at all those places before I'm certainly I would look at the mafia or the or the cab anything to do with Cuba.
Speaker 3:Well, I think, if you look at causation, I mean one of the speeches that he made American University, I think it was June 1963. If you wanna hear real rhetoric on peace and just a magnificent piece of presidential speech, history go back to that speech. It's beautiful and in a time of Cold War tensions, just right. I mean, not even a year after the Cuban Missile Crisis, on the brink of all out nuclear exchange, and you have this president reaching out and saying you know, we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's future and we're all mortal. I mean, you're talking about a direct shot across the bow, the military industrial complex, and one thing that gets really overlooked a lot was right before the assassination, there was the actual carrying out of US policy of the assassination of Vietnamese president Zm. Yes, okay, kennedy didn't authorize that. As a matter of fact, it made him sick. Yes, but that was us. We helped orchestrate the murder of South Vietnamese president Zm because he wasn't I guess I don't know a team player about the aggression that we wanted to show in the war against the North Vietnamese and Ho Chi Minh.
Speaker 3:I think there's something to that, which is, you know, everything is language. So I think they're sending a message to Kennedy. Was that part of that? Because he did not authorize that? It's the president, especially nowadays we can see, is not truly in control. I think you're probably as in control as you want to risk your life to be, and JFK didn't. I don't think that set well with him. If you look into his presidency, I don't think it's he. You talk about him wanting to. That's an actual quote. I got a t-shirt that says that.
Speaker 4:It says smash the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the wind.
Speaker 3:You know with JFK. So no president talks like that now.
Speaker 4:Right, the other thing you have, tony, and Don was commenting on it. But Kennedy issued in 63 that debt-free United States notes and you have to imagine that pissed off a lot of people too, and I have one, I know you have one, tony, and most people don't even know what those are. But it just seemed like it's hard to point directly to one source of person or one group that was really severely pissed at Kennedy, because he pissed off everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, yeah, and that's why, if you think, if you believe, like a lot of us do, that there is something like an Illuminati or whatever, something above it all, those would be the people that would work. Because there's somebody like Averill Harrowman who, by the way, averill Harrowman was right in the middle of that overthrow of an assassination of Jim in Vietnam and Kennedy was heart-sick about it, and that was earlier in November. It was only like 20 days before he was killed and I think he really started a while. These people are playing for keeps. When they did that Because they did it was obviously against his wishes.
Speaker 2:He didn't want him. He considered him a friend there, he didn't want him overthrown. So he realized at that point wow, and you're right about the American university speech that is, I consider it, the greatest speech ever delivered by an American president and certainly the greatest speech. And when you listen to it it's incredible Because it's unequivocal. It is just peace. What do you mean? Peace at our time? No, peace at all time, not just a Pax Americana enforced on the world about America's weapons of war. And again, he was the first one to look at our enemies At the time. They were the Soviets. He looked at them in human terms. He said these people care about their children. They breathe the same air. I mean, nobody's no other politician has ever talked that way about that. They demonize their enemies to the extent where they actually don't think they care about their children. They actually think that. And that's.
Speaker 2:Kennedy was just unbelievably aware and astute intellectually to be able to say something like that. And again, he got that from his father. His father was one of the foremost anti-war activists at this time RFK June who's the first one I didn't know till he said it. His father was an anti-war activist in World War I, along with so many others, and of course, in World War II he gave one of the greatest speeches I don't have the exact quote I've ever heard where he basically said I'd like to have any American father or parent tell me one good reason what would be your reason for sending your son off to a foreign war? To die, possibly die. So what would be the reason? And that's brilliant because it distills it down to the essential. And so he came from great stock and his father had all the right enemies and that's why JFK had the same powerful enemies and that's why he's still treated differently than every other so-called liberal Democrat.
Speaker 2:You look at the even LBJ people like that. When you look at how FDR and Wilson and Truman are treated, even down to Clinton and Carter Obama, obviously there's really no criticism allowed, very only mild criticism. But the court historians hate Kennedys. They hate all the Kennedys and I've had all the quotes from them in Hidden History and everything else. The left hates the Kennedys probably more than the right does and they're treated differently. Saul Olinsky said no enemies on the left. Well, they must not consider the Kennedys on the left, because they definitely consider them enemies.
Speaker 3:You know, joe Kennedy was ambassador to Great Britain during the time of the leadoff into World War II and was never forgiven for his stance of trying to broker peace and hold out and not get involved in a foreign war. And of course his son, john F Kennedy, was part of the America First movement, along with Charles Lindbergh and people. For all this history has been brushed aside because of the mythos of the good war and its World War II. And all of that gets laid on top of the court historians. That paved the way for the narrative. But that's not really how it was and even for the longest time it was painted in my mind that Joe Kennedy was a little off and an appeaser. When you're younger and you're reading history because he's an appeaser, it's such nonsense. And yeah, he did come from good stock. And of course there's only two presidents in history that printed treasury notes from the treasury. That's Abraham Lincoln and Kennedy. They were both shot in the head in public.
Speaker 3:So, it's something. That's how I got that quote from Jim Mars, because he put to and, by the way, lincoln's on the note that Kennedy printed. So I mean just a lot of things there. And you're right, don, it's got to be. It's like whoever at the top is pushing this through is using these self-interested parties like the anti-Castro right wingers and some of the extremists in New Orleans. That's why the New Orleans connection in your book Pipe, the Bimbo and Red is so important, because once you connect that Oswald is not alone. And as a matter of fact, he's not only not alone, he's connected to a group of people that, on the surface, if you're supposed to believe the mainstream media, that he's supposed to be mortal enemies with, which is the anti-Castro right? Because Lee Harvey Oswald is supposed to be this pro-communist anti-American holding his $12 mail order rifle, the Manlaker Carcano and the Communist Manifesto and that stupid photo that I want to hear your take on that too. But let's go for a second just talking about that rifle. You've held that rifle, haven't you Don?
Speaker 5:Yeah, Don you know, it was the German Mauser. Right, you held that one.
Speaker 2:I didn't get to say that one. I saw the Italian. I saw the one where there's no paper trail, there's no chain of possession for it, so it couldn't have been legally entered into the record in an honest courtroom. But yeah, I think it was 18, and when I was working for Mark Lane's group, citizens Submit Inquiry, I got to go to the archives. I got my little researcher card and I had a personal tour and they let me hold the alleged weapon and the magic bullet and they brought JFK's clothes out to me and you can see where the bullet holes were. I certainly see enough pictures. And then I got to go to a separate room and I had a private view and I could stay there as long as I want watch there's a pruder film and I could freeze each frame and just kind of look at it as much as I want. So it was cool. So we had the experience.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean and that's the, it's just important to realize the extent, because again, and I try to tell people this, even beyond our Cuba policy not changing, I mean our Cuba policy not becoming what they would want it to be, if they killed Kennedy they would have wanted to overthrow Castro. That's why they would have done it. They didn't do that. So the Cuba policy stayed the same. So, even outside of that, even the mafia, anti-castro Cubans, rogue CIA agents, these people did not. They certainly couldn't have got the secret service to stand down in daily plaza. They couldn't have touched the autopsy, the pathologists at Bethesda and get them to. They couldn't have done all that and they couldn't have got the media to cover up from the very beginning. And still, 60 years later, that involves, obviously people at the highest levels that control all these things and that's, I think, what's happened. That's why people I don't believe in this kind of dumbed down conspiracy or benign cover up or any of that stuff. No, this was huge. This was the assassination of a president and from the very beginning they were on board.
Speaker 2:I pointed out many times NBC News, I think. The day after the assassination I published it in the industry where they agreed in writing that we will publish only news that is consistent with the FBI's report on the assassination. That was one of the three networks at the time and certainly the other two didn't have to put it, because you can look at CBS and Walter Cronkite and ABC as well, and they never published anything or reported anything that was opposed to the conclusions of what the government was saying. So I think we need to look higher and look at the really, really powerful conspiracy, and I think that's why this book is important, because it shows that the entire New Orleans plot was a like ugly, a substrat of that was just something that this, this is.
Speaker 2:This is what we're doing. We're kind of setting up a separate little conspiracy here. If everything blows apart, okay, that's who we'll look at. We'll look at these people and look at their connections to the Cubans, the, and maybe the mafia, maybe Marcelo or something, the worst case scenario with. Maybe they would have Gone and make you know Carlos Marcelo or like the, the godfather who ordered it or saw, ordered the hit or something, but they were never going to go into the, they were never going to go out to George Monday or the Secret Service or Alan Dulles or Curtis will may, the Pentagon, the people I got through, I think, were probably you know, you know very active conspirers right so dawn.
Speaker 4:Where I was raised in Taiwan, there was this huge Antikinity sentiment, but that the more I've learned about him, the more I've grown to like him, because it's even in the small details. He took a stand against things based on principle. For instance, I didn't know this for a long time, but did you see the movie Oppenheimer?
Speaker 2:Haven't seen it.
Speaker 4:Okay, well, apparently Louis Strauss went after Oppenheimer quite a bit, stripped him of his security clearance and Kennedy was the young senator who opposed his nomination as US Secretary of Commerce at the time. And it's kind of a hidden gem at the end and he's like who voted against me? And Someone who's working for him, like an intern said, is this young senator Name Kennedy. He didn't like the way you treated Oppenheimer and I just thought that was magnificent.
Speaker 2:So Kennedy was. He was a. He was a great day. He was a. If you look at his record, he was always in support of all the the colonial movements in all the countries in third, you know, in Latin America and Africa. He supported all the nationalist movements there. He didn't like on, the CIA were putting puppets in and so forth, and so he was. He was gonna clash with those people and that's why, you know, when he started the Alliance for Progress, you know he had government programs that made sense, the Peace Corps and the Alliance for Progress. They were idealistic and the idea was to the Alliance for Progress was to get Latin America to emulate our system, but to, you know, to let them choose their own leaders. And of course the CIA and American government didn't want that to happen and so they had to prop up these ten port pat dictators everywhere. But he was, you know, and I my crimes and cover-ups in American politics 70, 76, 1963. I have a lot in there about him and his book profiles and courage, which is Still a great read, and one of the people he talked about was Robert Taft. He was one of the last great Republicans and his the reason why he's included his profile and courage Was his opposition to the Nuremberg trials.
Speaker 2:Jfk himself spoke out against the Nuremberg trials. There's nobody today, except for me when I wrote that book, to whatever audience I have, that that speaks out. Everybody thinks, oh, that's the greatest form of justice. No, it was terrible. It was. It was the legalized lynching of the losers by the victors, and never in the history of war had the victors Put the, the losers, on trial in a court of alleged law. And JFK and Robert Taft, eisenhower's brothers people like that at the time, recognize what a travesty that was. Now no one will speak out against it and people want, you know, nuremberg trials for Kobe. No, you know what have a good trials. I'm something based on Nuremberg. That was ridiculous. But we have, you know, you had like a Leading Soviet guy that was sending people to Siberia. That was, you know, was presiding over some of these trials. So he was, you know he was. He was a profile encourage himself and I in this book, quite the demo and read.
Speaker 2:We've also published as a separate appendix a credible letter that a 22, then 22 year old JFK wrote to his father. I think it was about 1939, 1940, but it was several years before Israel was created. But he's touring the Middle East and he it is. It's just an astute analysis of the situation and it's very. You can tell by his tone and to his father that they probably talked about Jews a lot. You know they probably touch that Israel on you. You can tell from the tone of the letter. It's pretty obvious and that, and it would be, I'm surprised it's allowed to exist out there without it being attacked as anti-semitic. But he's very even handed in it and he talks about what the disaster this is going to be if you create a Zionist state there. And again, he's a 22 year old guy and obviously his father agrees with as well. So his father, I'm sure behind closed doors, was, you know, one of the early critics of it's just ridiculous to set this state up there. And so it's important.
Speaker 2:Just realize how different he was. He was so different from all these other liberal Democrats that came out of the same. He was a light years away from Truman and Roosevelt and people, and that's why they hated them. You know, harry Truman despised him, eleanor Roosevelt hated him. They did not want to support him when he ran for president, and again because they hated his father and they knew they, they saw what some of his speeches at the Senate were and they knew what he. So he, and when he came into office, he, he kept up that streak of independence and Unfortunately, yes, it did find the cost of his life.
Speaker 3:Well, let's not forget who Robert Kennedy Worked for. His brother worked for. He worked for Joe McCarthy Yep, he worked for Senator Joe McCarthy. Yes, the Kennedy's had a relationship with the most outspoken anti-communist of the 20th century and a working relationship with him, okay. So that's, that's big. I think that gets overlooked a lot too. Kennedy was just different. I mean, you probably saw a through a lot of the, the party lines, and was more of a. Really, I think he was fixated on what worked and what was right. You know and again, that's easy he's a human being, so he's gonna be flawed. But nobody speaks that way anymore. No, there's, nobody has an open enough mind to to Again that Tail gunner Joe McCarthy would have been the most right-wing a figure at the time, in the 50s. And then you have, you know, rfk working for him, and that's that's something I'm sure that was discussed and I want to say there was more connection there with the, with the McCarty was McCarthy.
Speaker 2:Mccarthy was the godfather to RFK's oldest child, kathleen. Now they've tried to dismiss that, but no, he was. And he dated a couple of JFK sisters right and they were good friends, as was Jim forestall. Again, they had that connection where forestall was pushed out of a window at Bethesda Naval Hospital and McCarthy went into after McCarthy claim or McCarthy wrote a pamphlet saying that how they killed forestall he was actively saying they killed him and then he goes into Bethesda himself with a knee problem at age 48 and Dives two days later. No autopsy ever performed. And then of course JFK had his autopsy performed at Bethesda. So I guess that's where patriots go, to die or be.
Speaker 3:Bethesda at all costs.
Speaker 5:Yeah, she had something to say. Yeah, dawn, what can you tell us about Jack Martin in the real life X files? Because Paratrooper is kind of branched out into the UFO phenomenon, which I'll actually tie it around because, apparently, according to the research of the great Peter Seacosh, he was able to find documents where even Joseph McCarthy was asking about, yes, things like Roswell and UFOs, but with Jack Martin. Jack Martin and the other gentleman's name escapes me, but he was played by Ed Asner and JF.
Speaker 2:Guy.
Speaker 5:Bannish. They were a part of the original X files. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there is. I think I got that from Peter. Yeah, I don't. I think that is in Is in the American memory hole. I think. I don't think that's in the pipes of memory. I can be wrong because I was right and I was kind of writing them simultaneously, but and there's a little overlap there, but Jack Martin's a fascinating character and he, he had pseudonyms and the most amazing thing is there's no. I don't think he could be alive, because he'd be you know 110 or something, 120 or, but there's no record of his death and he was a guy in 1990, 1997, I was able to pinpoint it.
Speaker 2:You were able to find that, bob.
Speaker 5:Wilson, yeah, I think I passed it along to you.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 5:How he guyed and things like that.
Speaker 2:He. But he was and we have a lot on him in the book of talking, trying to help Garrison everything. He was a strange character, a frightening figure to a lot of people, a lot of people. So that that's kind of it's not entirely accurate when the banister, ed Asner, is beating Jack with Jack lemon played Martin in the movie, when he pistol whips him at everything it makes it look like he's kind of guide banisters, you know Wimpy, sycophant or something.
Speaker 2:But I don't think it was really that way because there's there's evidence in the case. A lot of people were scared of Martin. He was a very kind of a strange figure. He was wanted for a Couple murders, I think, and they just kind of dismissed the cases. So we have, we have some background in the book, but he's one of the ones that a Lot of these characters were. You know it wasn't just David fairy, it wasn't. I have a lot more about a guy banister in the book as well. These these people are interesting on their own but again, I think they were just that interest is just kind of human interest and maybe why they were picked to Play the roles they played. But I just think I just a lot of people, again under research community, tend to think of these people like as real conspirers. They these were not the people that were plotting to actually kill the president. Maybe some of them thought they were, and what a support of doing it. But they were, I think, working against each other.
Speaker 3:We're coming up here on the end of the show and I was thinking we went back to the beginning. We were talking about just general assassination overview and the timeline of Oswald. You know being in custody and then following that, you know, the next day you have Getting assassinated and murdered by Jack Ruby. Just, does Ruby have a New Orleans connection in any way?
Speaker 2:Not so much a New Orleans case. Oh, it is kind of an unusual, I guess that he's like that, he, he, but he again, he overall he has connections with these people in ways he there's all these In Ruby is kind of in a class of himself, because Ruby certainly we know Ruby was an FBI informant Obviously had mob connections going back to Al Capone. You know, as a teenager he was a runner for Al Capone and we have Lots of interesting connections with there. But it to New Orleans itself. I don't think he had a tremendous connection to New Orleans, so that may. But he was definitely part of that group because there's no question that Oswald was, not only when he was in New Orleans but then when he goes to Dallas, oswald's definitely showing up at that carousel club. I have tons of people that saw him in there at Jack Ruby's Club and saw him and Ruby together.
Speaker 2:And you had Rose Jeremy who ended up dying, being knocked off, but before she was she was run off the road and and was before the assassination and she's the one that said JFK is gonna be killed. And try to do Sally Kirkland, who I became friends with. I have her on the air, she was the actress who played that first scene in JFK, and we've I've met his son, her son, michael Marquette. He's who I've interviewed a couple times as well, but tells her story and we find out she was actually shot in the head later when they claimed she would. They didn't even report that, but she tried to warn of that, that they were gonna be with she while she was in the hospital after Kfk was killed. They asked her about Oswald and Ruby after Ruby killed Oswald and she said did they know each other? And she Laught and said they were lovers. You know, so that's, you know that's. Take that one for what it is, but they were. Clearly there was a connection between the two of them, and so it's.
Speaker 2:When Oswald leaves because when he leaves New Orleans and goes to Dallas, fbi is a warm debris we talk a lot about him in the book as well warm debris was tracking him in New Orleans and he decides to go to Dallas when Oswald does. I don't think that's a coincidence, and we talked about the agent. Regis Kennedy was all over there too, and Regis Kennedy, I tried to track down his son because Dean young Dean claims he was really good friends with him at high school but we couldn't find him anywhere. We couldn't locate him and would interesting to see what he he thought of things. But so all these players were.
Speaker 2:They were connected in different ways socially and in some cases I don't know that Ruby had a connection with Many of the others other than I was walled, but certainly and he may have been when Oswald went to Dallas. That's what it may have been when Ruby was kicked in and said you know To do whatever they told him to do. But there's no question I was walled and I've had to hidden history as well. I had a lot in there about the people that saw Oswald and in Ruby's carousel club. It's no question they knew each other. I.
Speaker 3:Remember in Roger Stone's book, the man who killed Kennedy. It's a really about LBJ's involvement. That's his research. There's a story in there in the book about how Ruby was actually a witness for Lyndon Johnson. Wait, if you live for a congressman, lyndon Johnson or maybe it was why he was Senate Majority Leader of some kind he was connected in some way. He, he was a witness for Nixon and he but he got but he got that contact through Johnson. So when Nixon saw Ruby Kill Oswald and they flashed his name, nixon supposedly turned pale because he knew. He knew who that was and what the connection was. I don't know if you've ever looked into that down, but I didn't know if there was.
Speaker 2:I'm not. I knew there was a connection he had to Nixon, but I didn't know that. That's again these people are. It's amazing the the connections that you find when you just scratch the surface between all these players that are involved in these big events.
Speaker 3:I mean the explanation that the Jack Ruby this club owner is night club owner in Dallas who ties to the mob just decided to throw his Life away and go go murder Lee Harvey Oswald. So Jacqueline Kennedy didn't have to testify.
Speaker 3:It's so, so mainstream media dumb like that. It's like if you think about it in retro I just look down the service like you actually reported that. Yeah, you think that's real. It's, yeah, it truly. This is a. It's a fast. This we just scratch the surface, folks, and then you don is such a well can you believe?
Speaker 5:can you believe, the passport survived the inferno.
Speaker 3:Doesn't melt steel, but it does on one day and but it also won't kill your bill, I'll melt your passport you know, Well, I want to. I want to close out, mr Anderson. Do you have anything further for Don or Anything bring up.
Speaker 4:No, just thank you, don, it's been a treat oh.
Speaker 2:It's my pleasure. I appreciate talking to you guys.
Speaker 3:Chris, you got anything.
Speaker 5:Yeah, don. Did you come across any kind of evidence, evidence that your poppy bush was in building seven on September 11 2001?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:He was at the Ritz Carlton in Washington.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was having.
Speaker 3:He was having lunch with the Ritz Carlton, with the big lawton family. I, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I think that you know. You know, when people try to tie those kind of political figures in it directly, it's just, I don't know, I just I know you're stretching.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that you're stretching it when what they do something like that, but I don't think that To the extent those people involved, they certainly weren't being used as gunmen, you know like, and I don't think Jackie shot. I mean, I have more and more people that that I like, that are big supporters of mine and sub-stack that's the latest thing come there's a bunch of people that really believe Jackie Pulled the trigger on JFK and it's like what kind? And they're really nice.
Speaker 5:Junior personally I'm looking at time traveling. It was Q.
Speaker 3:It was Q with a shell fix a shell toxin gun that was the. Shellfish toxin. Gun with that, with William Greer's assistance. That's what it was. Don tell people where they can find you and again, thank you so much for taking time to dive into this.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. It's what it's great. I always took great talking to you guys. Donald Jeffries, that media is my website. Donald Jeffries, that sub-stack calm called I protest, just like my weekly live streaming show. That's the only place I'm not being shadow banned, so I urge people to support me there. I am growing there, but nowhere else, so try if you want to help me out. You can follow me and subscribe to me on sub-stack.
Speaker 3:Awesome again. Donald Jeffries, ladies and gentlemen, donald Jeffries, dot media pipe to bimbo and red. Dean Andrews, jim Garrison and the conspiracy to kill JFK. Thank you, mr Anderson. Thank you, chris Graves, for your research and for your help. I appreciate it very much. Ladies and gentlemen, follow the podcast, pair truth or anywhere podcasts were found. The art of cyber and radio transmission. Wise wolf, gold and silver. Go check out our monthly membership program called wolf pack. We're growing daily. The more people to join, the better deals and get everybody and let's Keep you out of the D dollarization nightmare. All right, folks, and in the information war, be a pair of truth or see you next time you.